Deborah Lindemann interviews Scott Mandelker


DL=Deborah Lindemann
SM=Scott Mandelker

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DL: They are not the one's who are publicly coming forward to the therapists. It is only the one's who are traumatized and it is distorting the "visitor" presence.

SM: Right, and so, the contactee sample is skewed. In statistics, this would be called "a sampling bias." Only a certain population of contactees come forward to report their experiences, and these are often the people who've had what I would call "negative contact."

DL: There have been some pretty amazing sighting reports of UFO's in the last few years, such as the massive UFO flap which is still going on over Mexico, and then there were the sightings over Phoenix, and many others. This may be a difficult question to ask you, but I feel it's important, particularly with your strong feelings about the importance of non-interference. What percentage of sightings or UFO flaps do you feel are originating from positive versus more negatively oriented "beings"?

SM: Well, there are some interesting things to say about this. Number one, there are two basic categories for the origins of genuine UFOs: human and non-human. In terms of any claimed UFO sighting, the person is either having a genuine perception of a ship, or they are just hallucinating, or mistaking it for a natural phenomenon, as may happen.

DL: Or they're not seeing it correctly.

SM: Yes, either they do see something, or they think they do. I would say that in most of the cases of ships seen, there really is something there (made on Earth or truly beyond the planet). Honestly, I don't really think there are too many hoaxes, because I just don't think that too many people are actually that devious.

DL: Most are certainly not purposely hoaxing, but genuinely feeling that they saw something they cannot explain.

SM: Yes. It can certainly be a misperception, a misidentification or some type of mistake. How often that occurs, I certainly can't say.

But then we have to address the two other categories of genuine UFO flap sightings: human-made UFOs and alien. It may come as a shock to some people, but according to my own understanding, my experiences and work with clients, and my reading of metaphysics, the majority if not the entirety of UFO flap sightings come from negative ETs.

Why? Because, again, positive extraterrestrials deeply and implicitly follow the law of free will. And so they would never appear en masse to a group of people -- because in all such randomly selected groups, like the population of any city, most of the viewers don't really want to have that experience!

In the RA material, they state in no uncertain terms that most UFO flaps are the result of holes or windows in a sort of quarantined energy field around the Earth. The negative ETs then take advantage of these holes, and they don't mind coming in with all their brothers who just fly in along with them, and basically freak-out the majority of the people who are not prepared.

The basic effect of flaps on most people is certainly negative, and not an aid to their spiritual awakening (no matter what some idealistic channels may say), in the sense that it creates fear and confusion for those unprepared for it.

DL: So, in your opinion, this violation of the prime directive, or violation of our free will, would include the massive sightings which took place in areas such as Mexico and Phoenix?

SM: Right. In my understanding, the Phoenix lights, the Mexico City sightings, or those in South Africa or the flaps in many other places, are almost all coming from negative extraterrestrials who basically don't mind infringing on the free will of the human population, the majority of whom have no way to correctly, and usefully interpret the experience. In my opinion, the only other source of UFO flaps is that portion of those black-budget agencies that have similar technology.

In terms of this, I think there's been a program in place for many years, well-established and well-funded, developed by certain military-intelligence agencies that themselves have extraterrestrial type craft or UFOs. When they appear in flaps, which I'm sure they do sometimes, they just want to gauge public opinion, or condition the population in some way. But I can't say which flap came from negative ETs who don't care about traumatizing people, and which came from human technology.

DL: Sure, that is quite possible. On another subject, there are a lot of people who report witnessing what is often referred to as orbs, balls of light, spheres, that type of thing. And they seem to be related or witnessed in correlation with abductions and sometimes in and around crop circles. Many times they are anywhere from four to twelve inches in diameter and are seen moving about in a manner which seems intelligently guided. What is your personal opinion of what these orbs may be?

SM: Well, this kind of question I can't fully answer, but I think that the types of lights associated with crop circles are probably energy devices that have been programmed by the extraterrestrial artists or originators of the crop circles. Those lights are basically like a drone craft that is programmed in a command center to go out and fly in a certain manner and lay down the crop or to create the design.

I've also talked with people who have reported balls of light appearing in front of them and having a one to one contact. In my understanding, this is usually a positive contact, and that person is probably a Wanderer. Now, it probably has happened that some people have seen these balls of light and been traumatized, or burned, or injured in some way. If so, that would indicate a negative contact.

I'm sure some people may feel that my talk of positive and negative is just reductive, or too simplistic. I'm certainly aware of that kind of criticism. But to me, this whole positive/negative thing is so elementary, yet because people still don't seem to get it, I feel compelled to keep talking about it, although it's a bit tiring to me as well. I'm not trying to make such a big deal of this, but it is an essential point to acknowledge moral polarity among ET groups and human-ET contacts. It is not a trivial matter, in any way.

But we basically have a big problem here on Earth with discernment. I mean, how many people still follow evil deceptive leaders, keep voting for them again and again, and then wonder why there are so many problems in society or why their leaders break their promises? The media gives us the impression that "your leaders love you," and just like little children, most people believe them. Humanity is quite naive.

DL: So regardless of what these balls of light are, whether they are non-physical forms of "beings" that are visiting people, or something else, you are basically saying to trust your experience, in terms of whether it feels like a positive or negative encounter, and that one can intuitively know, that this is not rocket science.

SM: Right. I think that we need to have a basic level of intuitive self-trust. Honestly, it's the most elementary kind of thing. If someone shouts at you, you feel bad, and if someone is kind and caring, you feel good. It's just like that.

Likewise, an ET contact which involves pain, terror, confusion or violation, almost always comes from a negative source. That negative source is not going to change, no matter how much you use the experience for your own self-growth. And no matter how much you want to cooperate or be on equal terms, the negative source isn't likely to change its polarity or its intentions. Negatively oriented ETs do change polarity sometimes, but they don't go abducting humans to do so.

DL: We hear mostly reports of people who have had encounters with what we frequently call "greys". Is it your experience that all "beings" we would describe as "greys" have all the same polarity, that they are all negative, all causing traumatic encounters for individuals? Or, do you find or think it is possible that there are differences, just as there are with similar looking people? Do you feel that some may be more spiritually evolved or assisting, and less self-serving?

SM: I hold out the possibility that there is a variance, that there are several different ET groups with similar morphology and body shape. You can certainly have different races of different polarities, that evolved from a common genetic root. That is definitely possible.

However, positive and negative ETs don't work together on what I would consider genuine abductions which involve pain, terror, and trauma. So if you see two kinds of greys, and one is self-serving and once is nice, they're both self-serving. The positive groups don't collaborate on abductions, I can guarantee you that. Positive ETs don't help negative ETs traumatize people.

Given the possibility that there could be several different groups with similar type "grey morphology," people have to be truly honest with themselves about the nature of their experience. They would need to be discerning in the face of whatever that alien has said to them, which might include nice words to make them feel important, that they are special, or they're needed for this important spiritual mission. These days, you hear the line that "hybridization is essential to save the human race." Honestly, I think this is just a big, fat, lie.

As I said before, I think this is simply giving people a palliative to allow continued abuse, and to justify the trauma. It's a way of mollifying the person's confusion, giving them a red herring to chew on, and makes them feel good about themselves, despite the fact that they're just being taken advantage of. You can see the same kind of deception coming from any corrupt human leader or organization: "your surrender to me is for your own good, and because you are special..."

It seems hard for most people, including, first and foremost, abductees and researchers in the field, to realize that negative ETs are tricky and deceitful and as manipulative as they can be, in the extreme. And nice humans are often naive and don't want a bitter truth.

So, if all these things are taken into consideration, and people are not naive in the analysis of their experiences, or the experiences of others, then we can still hold out the possibility that there are different kinds of greys, and that some of them are positive. But we should just not let ourselves be fooled. There's no value to that.

DL: In your work, are you convinced that you have cases where individuals have been able to stop their negative or unwanted encounters?

SM: Yes, it has happened a couple of times. But mainly it's because they did spiritual practice. I gave them a mantra, such as a traditional Buddhist mantra in Sanskrit or Tibetan. And, they used that mantra with some degree of confidence and faith, and over time, they did open up to their own power. But if people are not willing to first open their heart to the full range of their own feelings, and fully take responsibility, and then engage in serious spiritual practice, then it probably won't terminate on its own. It may stop temporarily, but unless they become truly self-empowered, then they're still vulnerable.

DL: There is a mind-set within the abduction research community that, number one, there is nothing we can do to stop this. And number two, that those who have prayed, or done meditation, and claim that the nature of their experiences seems to have changed or stopped as a result, have been greatly fooled and are simply kidding themselves. It is claimed that the only difference is that they probably are not remembering the experiences, but that they are continuing. So there is this sort of helpless feeling among "experiencers" where they feel there is nothing they can do.

SM: Well, let the buyer beware. The quality of the information you get is based on the quality of the practitioner you go to. Again, it's a very complicated issue, because some people do pray and do meditation, and could certainly continue to have negative contact. As they say, you have to pray "hard enough..."

At the same time, other people do meditation and some kind of spiritual practice, and the abduction experiences do end, or at least they don't recall any more violation. In these cases, I imagine that it really did end, and the person is not fooling themselves. They just don't have that experience any more.

But here's where the practitioner's view comes in -- because if the researcher or professional feels it just cannot be stopped, then that is an additional obstacle for the person to get over. If the researcher believes that it is impossible to terminate it, I would recommend that people leave that practitioner, no matter how famous they are, and no matter how well respected they are in the field.

Because as far as I know, based on my experience and my work with others, as well as the principles of metaphysics and white magic, this kind of negative experience can be terminated. But again, if people want to be disempowered, and they want to feel out of control, that is totally their right...

DL: ...And they want to feel supported in their belief that they cannot control their life....

SM: Right, if they feel that they can't control their life, they're not responsible for this experience, there is nothing they can do, they're only helpless victims -- if this is what they want to believe, well then, more power to them! I would certainly let them continue that way of thinking, if they so choose.

But there is another way, another line of reasoning and experience, based on metaphysical knowledge and spiritual practice, that can shift our overall conditions of body, mind, and spirit, revitalize our energy fields and bring us into greater self-understanding, acceptance, will, and spiritual maturity. And that approach delivers results.

This path, that of taking matters into your own hands through spiritual work on your own self, fosters a shift of energy and a change of consciousness which brings protection, and can lead to becoming invulnerable or non-attractive to negative ET contact.

But again, you need a metaphysical perspective to appreciate that, and if you don't want it that's fine. But in the metaphysical view, you can come to realize that your true self, what can be called Higher Self, is our true essence at a much higher level of being and energy than those negative aliens.

Therefore, the more we make alignment with our true self, the more our energy field becomes sovereign. It is then no longer penetrable or attractive to those beings, who themselves exist at a much weaker level of consciousness. And yet, this is a very deep thing, and not everyone can accept what I'm saying -- but it is in accord with 5000 years of mystic spirituality, East and West.

I've known other practitioners who have been able to affect this kind of change in their clients, so that people don't have these kinds of negative experiences any more. But in all cases, the individual must take a significant amount of responsibility for what they've gone through, and can't remain stuck in blame and self-pity. They must also make some sort of effort at developing themselves spiritually, in whatever way is right for them. But they must activate their WILL.

DL: Any closing thoughts here of anything else you'd like to share?

SM: Well, the pity here, of course, is that ninety percent of the universe is benevolent, and quite beautiful and gracious in terms of their consciousness and their intentions for helping Earth. But due to the weight of millennia of human confusion, self-destructive tendencies, long-held religious conditioning that reinforces self-doubt and self-denial, the abduction phenomenon has taken center stage in our consideration of ET contact.

This has lead to an overemphasis of the role of negative ETs in the cosmic plan. But, I guess it is not surprising, given all the problems with the soul groups on Earth, and the paucity of true spiritual seeking in human society. Many benevolent ET groups feel tremendous pity for this planet, and the souls here who know no better.

Anyway, the antidote to negative ET contact is, of course, just the development of greater self-love and self-appreciation. As always, and through all experiences, we ourselves determine the quality and speed of our own evolution. As we can sever our ties to abusive people, we can also sever our ties to abusive alien groups. In the very near future, they will have absolutely nothing to do with this planet, but till then, I hope people can open their eyes, develop some discernment, and come to realize their own spiritual power sleeping within.


(This interview took place on September 27, 2000.)

[This interview is available on audio tape . See TAPES in menu below.]

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