Deborah Lindemann interviews Scott Mandelker


DL=Deborah Lindemann
SM=Scott Mandelker

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DL: When you speak of ET souls, for some people they may interpret it as meaning that in another incarnation they lived on another type of physical planet, other than Earth, as a very different manifestation than human. Is that to what you are referring to also?

SM: Yes, it's the same thing. Here we're talking about inter-planetary, inter-dimensional, inter-systemic reincarnation. In this sense, I'm using the word, "systemic," to mean solar system. Generally, the Wanderers or old souls now on Earth came from other dimensions and other soul groups before coming here.

Some Wanderers have been here for 25,000 years, some for 5,000, or 2,000 or some just for 50 or 100 years. When they die, if they're not going to continue with Earth, most of them won't -- they will just go back to those other groups and take a different body, in a different civilization. And some of them would be in no body, because they are beyond the level of all material form.

DL: As you look back at your own life, when did you begin to believe or feel that you were a Wanderer?

SM: When I was in high school, I was very much into science fiction, which is a common trait of ET souls, but that didn't have anything to do with my awakening to being a Wanderer. When I was studying Buddhism and practicing meditation ardently in my twenties, that also had nothing to do with my awareness of being an ET or ET soul, although it was certainly laying the foundation for my later self-understanding.

My concrete awareness of being a Wanderer started in my middle twenties with extensive out-of-body experiences, both conscious and semi-conscious, where I met extraterrestrial beings, or beings from soul groups not associated with Earth. After a few of these, it became quite clear to me that I have an identity with them.

This recognition also built upon years of intensive meditation, working to develop my intuition in consonance with spiritual study (such as the RA Material), and from my feelings from childhood of not fitting in or feeling at home in this society. But in the end, this kind of recognition is simply a form of subjective knowing. That is the only way someone can come to this conclusion, even if they have some kind of a paranormal experience. In the end, it comes down to personal, subjective knowing, and self-validation, and that is easier for some people than others.

DL: So, growing up as a child, if you were to look at your childhood, you don't think it was particularly different, or you didn't look at yourself as not fitting in, or feeling unique from other children?

SM: Well, when I was growing up, I was pretty alone because I was an only child, and my father died when I was really young. So, there was just me and my mother from the age of five until fourteen when she got remarried. I always had a sense of being alone and being different. I don't know if I even articulated it at the time as a feeling of being "different", but I just didn't fit in and didn't even fully want to fit in to my peer groups.

I really just went my own way -- which is a pattern that's continued ever since! That too is a common characteristic of Wanderers, a sense of not belonging, feeling alienation. So, I guess that was an early indication, but it didn't really develop into any conscious ET self-understanding until I did a lot of metaphysical study, deepening meditation, and an extensive series of out-of-body experiences in my twenties. Then it became very clear, and today, it's no big deal!

DL: You have created what you call "The ET Questionnaire", which is a list of questions you have compiled which seems to reflect the common emotional and spiritual traits of Wanderer's or ET souls. With your permission, I'd like to share that questionnaire with my readers.

SM: Oh, yes sure. You can take it from my book or my website.

DL: You speak of being and ET soul or Wanderering, how would you describe the types of contact experiences you have had? Have any been fully physical at any time, or have most of them been in out-of-body or meditative states?

SM: Oh, most of them have been meditative and out-of-body. I don't think I've had any direct physical contact. I've had synchronicities, but no direct physical contact. It is said in the RA Material, and I think it seems to be true, that subjective contacts are generally positive, and the physical type contacts are negative, because negative ET's sort of work more in the physical, and they often want to "prove" their existence to get their way with, or should I say, "over" people.

One of my clearest experiences was when I was working with the Robert Monroe "hemi-sync" technologies. I had a very clear experience of raising up out of my body, meeting my group in tremendous love and familiarity, and getting some information from that experience that revealed my identity with that group. This is actually a classic form of "Wanderer activation" or awakening experience, for just this purpose.

DL: A lot of UFO researchers and therapists out there in the field have a very polarized view of the nature of these "beings" that are visiting Earth. One view is that they are all negative, or in more rare cases that they are all positive or benign. It seems to be one viewpoint, versus the other viewpoint, certainly not much in between. What is your take on the percentage of negative versus positive extraterrestrials that are visiting us, and what do you base that on?

SM: Well, first of all, I have an idea about the number or percentage of positive and negatively oriented extraterrestrials universally. That's based on a figure from the RA Material, which I trust deeply because of my years of working with the material, teaching others, and seeing how it fits personal and collective experience.

They say that ninety percent of the beings in the universe are on the path of love, also called the "path of service to others." Ten percent follow what is called the "path of service to self." But, I think the balance of positive / negative contact for Earth humanity is certainly not ninety/ten in the favor of the positive. Of course, the negative contacts get more press, and they are more sensational and people talk about them more, which leads to an artificial inflation of the sample, a skewing of the sample.

What we hear about, is also not necessarily reflective of all that is happening globally, in terms of ET contact. It's only a skewed selection of what is taking place. So, what we hear about seems to be the converse, or ninety-ten in terms of negative to positive. What may actually be happening, worldwide, may be closer to fifty/fifty, but we just don't know for sure.

If some Egyptian farmer gets a vision of a benevolent spiritual being out in the middle of his field, he probably won't go running to the newspapers or TV stations, and it won't make the the six o'clock news, or some kind of "Sightings" program. But, if people have negative contacts or something really traumatic, that's when they make videos or make sell the rights to major motion pictures.

So, I really couldn't say what the percentage of positive / negative contact on Earth really is. I think it is important that researchers do have a polarized view, but only if it is inclusive. A polarized view, meaning there are truly positive ETs, and there are truly negative ETs, would be quite helpful, and I think that is truly the way it is in the Universe.

I also don't think we should be afraid to use the terms "positive and negative," because we can speak that way and still realize and know that everything is the Creator, everything is God, everything is held in most perfect love and Divine Order. If you want to be wholistic and unified, I can do that, but in time and space, we do see that souls have clearly polarized intentions. And more so, the extraterrestrials have obviously polarized intentions. So I think we need a balanced and inclusive view, that acknowledges both unity and polarity.

DL: You have stated in your book, that many modern therapists feel it is their duty to "fix and correct" those with whom they work. However, you caution, and I agree with you on this, that nowhere is this attitude potentially more destructive than with contactees and abductees. Would you amplify this a bit more?

SM: In that statement, I'm referring to two different categories of counselors or therapists who want to fix, change and correct their clients. The first category are those professionals who actually don't believe in the metaphysics of what the client is presenting. They don't believe that there are such things as objective aliens, or any such thing as inter-dimensional contact.

DL: That the person is having delusions or that there is some other explanation....

SM: Right, so this kind of therapist takes the psychopathological orientation to their interpretation and treatment, and they basically try to dissuade the person out of their "false beliefs." Now, that seems to be such an elementary mistake on the therapist's side, that it might even seem foolish and a waste of time to talk about it -- at least among those of us who believe in spiritual reality -- but I think this orientation probably dominates the orthodox treatment of ET contact issues, and as you know, spiritual healers are in the minority!

DL: Oh sure, abductees get this all the time. They don't even feel that they can tell their therapist this, for fear of being thought crazy.

SM: And that's because psychology is bound by the rational, material, empirical paradigm. Psychology is sort of the struggling poor brother of medicine, trying to be a credible science, when actually it's not quite possible, since so much of the domain of psychology includes the intangible phenomena of mind. Ultimately, mind-experience is deeply related to metaphysics, and includes all the familiar issues such as past life karmic influences, inter-dimensional contact, the plans of Higher Self, the non-rational intuition and subjective knowing -- all of which can't be addressed by only looking at childhood events.

DL: So a therapist that is trained in metaphysics and understanding of these dimensions of the mind, or the experiences which we are capable of having, wouldn't be coming from a "let's fix this problem" viewpoint.

SM: Right, I think not. Unfortunately, it's very rare to find someone who is clinically well trained in a psychology or counseling program, having a Masters or Ph.D. degree, and also coming from a strong metaphysical background.

People in metaphysics don't generally care about psychology, because they think it's backwards, which it certainly is in many ways. And the people who are found in orthodox, mainstream psychology -- who may actually be excellent therapists when it comes to normal kinds of issues, the issues of this life and this world -- these people usually think that metaphysics is just hokey-pokey, woo-woo, a product of the imagination, or just plain irrelevant.

I think that a counselor who has an appreciation for both psycho-dynamics, as well as familiarity with metaphysical principles and the way of Mind and inter-dimensional contact, would certainly try to work with the person's emotional process, and then help them frame it cognitively -- which any good therapist would also do. At the same time, I think they would also help the person look at their own belief system, and their own mental, spiritual, and karmic patterns that allowed the contact to happen in the first place.

So, there would be an intervention that included some measure of "fixing, correcting, or changing" the person's habitual patterns, but without any kind of attempt to dissuade them of their beliefs, or dismiss the potential objective reality of the metaphysics involved. The counselor would not be trying to rid the client of any notions, but rather, help them formulate understanding, and a plan of action, based on a deeper comprehension of what's been happening. As I said before, all levels of the experience need to be considered, beginning with the psychological and the emotional, but also including the spiritual.

But again, many people have had traumatic contact and are unable to address it fully, and in many cases, they'd rather not try to terminate it. They are willing to let it go on and on, because they really think they are gaining from it. And as I've said before, the person may well be gaining some kind of personal development through their own work in trying to heal themselves in the aftermath, but I don't see that there is a lot to gain from maintaining an abusive relationship. And if an abductee remains with an invalidating therapist, then the abuse will only get worse. That's probably the worst-case scenario.

DL: And in some cases, it becomes part of their identity. For instance, a person who comes from a dysfunctional family, or a woman who is repetitively beaten by her husband, this often becomes part of the identity of who they think they are, and even though they know that it hurts, it's very hard for them to break away from that.

SM: Right, I totally agree.

DL: So a lot of times we do things in our lives, or continue patterns which are destructive, because they're familiar.

SM: They're familiar, and they also give us a kind of emotional security because of the familiarity. There can also be a sense of the comfort of the known, which provides psychological meaning and a sense of structure and cognitive safety.

Furthermore, the person may not feel so alone because they're in a relationship. It may be a dysfunctional or abusive relationship, but it is a real relationship. At least, they're not in the destitute position of solitude or total isolation. Yes, a lot of people want to continue the experience, because they imagine they would feel worse without it.

DL: I want to say something here too, in defense of "other" kinds of contact. The intention is not to trash the "visitor" experience and say that it is all negative, awful and bad, but to try and help our readers understand the nature of their experiences, what they can do to change what is not desirable, and at the same time remind the public that there are other types of positive or beneficial contact that are taking place.

It has been my understanding that "beings" which are more positive or evolved in nature, don't interfere with the direction of our planet or our lives, more like the popular concept of the "prime directive", reflected in the television series of Star Trek.

SM: Right, and this touches upon a core point.

The primary difference between positive and negative ET groups is that positive beings willingly and freely follow the conscious free will of the individual. They basically acknowledge free will as their guiding principle, and would never willingly infringe on that.

As I've mentioned before, I can't really say if the majority of ET contacts on the planet are positive or negative. One thing that RA said, which is an interesting statement, which I can't affirm, but I just remember and keep in mind, is that the only people who are getting direct one-to-one contacts from benevolent ETs are the Wanderers.

Now there are only about sixty to eighty million Wanderers on the planet, and only about ten percent of them are awake. So, maybe there have been five to ten million positive contacts in the last thirty years. Again, these are one to one, inspiring, uplifting, meaningful, respectful, non-traumatic, understandable and extremely beneficent type contacts. These often happen in dreams at night, or in visions. But, it is not to be expected that the people who are getting these contacts would be likely to go around telling too many people about them, because they are quite personal, intimate, and also, not at all upsetting.

DL: So it sounds like you are suggesting that there are very few people, or a small percentage on the planet who are actually experiencing these more beneficent type contacts?

SM: Well, I think the numbers of people who've had direct positive contact may not be so small, if they are in the millions, but the contacts are quite subjective and personal. And these people won't generally talk about, because it's not confusing. They may not know exactly what it is, but it's not traumatic. Actually, these are the kind of people who often come my way, and almost universally, I find that they've shared this experience with hardly anyone before me.

[This interview is available on audio tape . See TAPES in menu below.]

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