Deborah Lindemann interviews Scott Mandelker


DL=Deborah Lindemann
SM=Scott Mandelker

Page 2 of 5 Pages

SM: From a metaphysical perspective, it's just called Karma. It can also be called "programmed catalyst," which means life experience programmed or planned from the level of Higher Self before the current incarnation began. It is the same process in which we allow anything to come into our field of life-experience, for a particular purpose.

But in the case of abduction, it is not exactly the same as the pre-incarnative programming that leads us to birth in a particular family, with a certain mix of parents and emotional conditions. I don't think that the Higher Self contacts some negative ETs and says, "OK, if you want to come abduct me, please do so because it will be good for my growth". It doesn't happen that way -- and this is the mistake people often make when talking about "past-life agreements" for abduction.

Although some New Age people don't seem to know it, I don't think that everything in our life is set up by Higher Self. People have a funny idea about that. I don't think that most people have soul agreements with abducting aliens, although it does happen sometimes when the person was involved in so-called black magic in previous lives, or when they actually are members of the same soul-group as the abducting alien. I have seen this sometimes, and I wrote about it in my book, From Elsewhere. This is rare, but it does happen.

In some cases, of course not all, the person who has been abducted has brought in with them what I would consider some pretty heavy karma from a past life. Sometimes, they themselves were abusers, even to the point where they had tortured others and had done serious soul-damage to others, what we'd consider real malevolence. Sad but true, some people do have this sort of karmic legacy -- and again, it is not sign of moral inferiority, since most elder souls have tasted the negative path, to some degree, in past lives.

But for this kind of person, in the present life they have a monkey on their back, and that monkey comes in the form of a negative ET. This is not the Higher Self sending some negative ET to deliver punishment, but simply the karma of getting back what they previously dished out, in a past life. Again, this is NOT intended as punishment, and from the level of Higher Self, it's just an experience that may catalyze a form of spiritual rebalancing -- a clearer choice of path: love or control.

As you can see, all of this is a bit esoteric, and I can't get into too much detail here. But this kind of discussion lies at the heart of the mental and spiritual levels of treatment for abductees, and obviously, not too many people are willing to think this way, and it takes a great deal of self-love and forgiveness to consider our responsibility for the abduction experience.

Again, I'm NOT saying that everyone who has had a violation-type ET contact was a torturer in a past life. Of course not! I'm only saying that there is often past-life karma involved, and that it may not be so "pretty." But again, many souls have played on "the left-hand path" in past lives, and it is not a mark of being an evil person, or anything like that.

So, there are many permutations of personal wounding, spiritual self-rejection, and karmic conditions that lead to human abduction. Some abductees are actually ET souls, although not in the common categories of Walk-in and Wanderer -- those coming from benevolent ET groups (and who rarely have negative ET contact, themselves).

In this category, the person who is abducted is actually an incarnated member of that same alien group, and they may have been sent here because they were low on the pecking order -- to take a human body and provide the needed genetics and tissue for that abducting group to use in some way.

Occasionally, the abductee is a "Wanderer", [further definition of a "Wanderer" will be given later in this interview] who is a pretty evolved, positively-oriented soul. When Wanderers get abducted, it is often because they've had some kind of emotional abuse in this lifetime, or because they want to do some type of spiritual service, although they are quite naive about it.

When a Wanderer brings in a negative contact, it usually doesn't last long, because they often get direct aid from other benevolent ETs and, in any case, their innate awareness of what's really good for them starts to kick in soon. The negative ET takes advantage of them simply because the person is naive, and wants to serve the universe, but is coming from a wounded and confused psyche.

I'm sure there are also lots of people who don't have any particular link to the abducting alien, nor such heavy karmic baggage, but are just in a mentally or spiritually weakened condition, and thus became easy prey for the alien contact.

DL: When we speak of this vulnerability or this weakened condition, what is there about that, whether it be physically, emotionally, psychically, or whatever, that allows some type of negative contact to take place, compared to the individual who is very centered, very confident about themselves? How would we even begin to define what the difference is? Is there something physical we can point to?

For example, many years ago I studied with a Qi Gong master who taught Qi Gong. One of the benefits to practicing Qi Gong, according to her and other master teachers, is that when the Qi [Chi] is unblocked and flowing throughout you and around you, that you are safe from negative influence. I'm wondering if there is something to our energy field being whole and healthy and strong, that actually doesn't allow a penetration to happen.

SM: Well, I basically agree with that, and what I'm saying about mental conditions -- be they karmic in origin, related to childhood abuse, or stemming from spiritual self-rejection -- is another way of saying the same thing. Talking about personal psychology on the one hand, and Qi or radiatory vital energy on the other, are two ways of approaching the same thing. Both point to the unified condition of body / mind / spirit, from the perspective of either energy or consciousness -- which are two words for the same thing.

The Chinese or Japanese systems of Qi are talking about self-integrity from the angle of subtle energies. In the Western systems of metaphysics, this is discussed in terms of the three energy fields of body, mind and spirit. These fields interpenetrate and influence each other constantly, and their integrity, strength, and quality depend on mental/spiritual conditions, first and foremost.

Thus, the dense physical body has it's own field, interpenetrated and surrounded by what is called the "etheric body," which is then sheathed by more subtle bodies: astral, mental, and higher dimensional. This relates to the seven chakras, and the quality of these energy fields depends on our mental/spiritual development.

Simply put, we've got the triad of body/mind/spirit energy fields, the quality of which is ultimately determined and created by the specific conditions of mind -- related, of course, to past life karma, our childhood experiences, and all life events.

And so, there are certain harmonious ways of thought and being which support the integrity, cohesion, and regularity of these energy fields, and that lead to protection from negative ET contact. This is the basis for meditation and all forms of virtue in service to others: they cohere and unify our body/mind/spirit system, and that moves us towards becoming impervious to negative aliens.

Of course, this relates to the chakras and basic spiritual growth, which leads to protection from harm. When we live with greater self-love and self-acceptance -- not blaming or hating ourselves, not controlling or repressing our emotional life, but instead, staying true to our honest experience (whatever it may be, happy or sad, kind or otherwise), then we move towards greater body/mind/spirit harmony and energy integration.

As many spiritual traditions teach, love is the greatest protection of all. When combined with true self-appreciation, self-faith and trust in our goodness, it also leads to freedom from negative ET contact. This type of work is the heart of the mental/spiritual work with abductees, but it can't come until we take responsibility for the experience. Taking responsibility is the first step, and if we don't stop there, it has the potential to unleash a great deal of true self-power -- and then we realize we can take the whole situation into our own hands.

At the higher levels of working, our improved self-love translates into kindness and openness towards others, real compassion that has the power to truly help others help themselves. From this harmony, which has a wonderful effect on the body/mind/spirit field, we can move to the next level of spiritual work, which centers around the development of what is called the "sixth chakra" at the forehead. From that level of chakra development, we move into a real sense of wholeness, innate perfection, completeness just as we are, and our boundless true nature.

DL: You're pointing at the third eye area.

SM: Right, the "sixth chakra" is in the area of the third eye. When this center is well developed, we realize that all things, including ourselves and negative aliens alike, are complete, whole, and perfect. This awareness, like the sixth center itself, is actually beyond what we call "love" -- although its fullest development requires love, or the quality of compassion that is associated with the fourth chakra.

When a person adds sixth center development to their already developed fourth chakra -- when you add a sense of true self-wholeness to basic kindness and self-acceptance -- then the harmonious vibration of love is greatly strengthened. This is pure spiritual work: adding self-power to true kindness and unconditional acceptance of all.

At this point, the person can develop a kind of energy crystallization that offers complete protection against negative ETs. Like a wall of light, the combined force of balanced love along with humble self-empowerment creates an energy field that repels negative ETs, and prevents all abduction. This doesn't exactly wall us off, but rather, creates a sort of crystallized, unified, regularized energy field, into which lower vibrations can't enter.

You have to remember, the level of spiritual development of our own Higher Self is far beyond that of negative, abducting aliens. They don't try to abduct the Higher Self, I am sure! They would merely perceive a radiant sphere of white light, and then depart.

The principle here is that certain vibrations cannot enter a highly unified, purified energy field without losing their distorted form. Doing this kind of spiritual work (beginning with self-responsibility, following up with balanced love and acceptance with wisdom, and then moving towards recognition of our wholeness and true boundless nature) creates a potent field of light. We can't see this with our physical eyes, but a higher dimensional being could perceive it, and negative ETs certainly can as well.

And this is just the point: any entity which enters the field must have a comparable vibration, or else it just can't get in. And if it did get in, it would simply turn white -- which means, become resonant with the vibration of the field, in this case, with love-based power.

Literally, this is repellant and repugnant to negative ETs, and they would lose their energetic integrity as ensouled beings should they try to enter. As they seek to maintain their own conditions of distortion (which is their choice: living without love, and willfully ignorant of true Unity, the Law of One) they just wouldn't enter the field. And thus, love-based self-appreciation with wisdom is the true protection, which is totally available to all of us, always.

DL: So you're saying it's not compatible in terms of frequency or vibration.

SM: Yes, the energy fields don't resonate, and ultimately, the energy field of someone who is spiritually self-integrated is repellant to the negative ET, who basically can't enter, and would find that they'd lose their integrity should they enter.

And so, if the negative ET tries to enter the energy field of a person who has great love and power, the alien would lose their sense of individuality. This is one way of putting it, although I am not totally sure of the process, and there are many ways of saying it.

So the person, who is filled with thoughts of self-judgement, hatred or self-condemnation, in the sense of having massive feelings of insecurity, inadequacy, inferiority, depression, sorrows, and self-pity, basically has a collapsed or porous energy field condition. This is the way their body / mind / spirit field would appear to the ET.

Of course, all of this comes from their conditions of mind, which in turn influences their immunity or immune system, as well as their overall Qi vitality. If we think the thoughts of self-condemnation, then our immune system weakens. This is also related to the chakras, as our immune system is connected to the thymus, and the thymus is the endocrine gland related to the heart chakra. And so, self-love has a beneficial effect on the heart, and self-rejection, a negative effect.

DL: There's a situation too, and I've seen this in my own support groups, a frustrating position for many abductees, that while they may be complaining that the experience is traumatic or that they are frightened, there's a part of them that is mystified by it. I've asked many, "If you could go back and you could change all of this, and never have had this experience, would you, and why or why not?"

Many of them say that they believe they have evolved to become who they are today because of their experiences. They often go on to share they have become better because of it, or it has expanded their sense of themselves and their part in this reality. And the frustrating position for them is that there's a part of them that doesn't want to let go of it yet, because they want to understand it, and it is as though their curiosity is fostering a continuation of the experiences. So there's something important here about their choices, as to whether they want the continuation of these experiences or not, and all that goes with that.

SM: Yes, it is a very delicate issue. Overall, I think the first thing the person has to determine what is the intention or agenda of the initiating agent, the ET. That can certainly be determined, and without too much difficulty, if we listen to our heart. The rule here is so simple that many people can't get it: if it felt uplifting, inspiring, and kind, then the ET intention is positive, for our betterment. On the other hand, if we feel violated, disoriented, and traumatized, then it was likely a negative contact. To me, this is kind of simple.

If you can't clearly determine the ET intention, and if you don't hold that foremost in the discussion, then you really don't know what you're getting -- whether or not you can turn the experience to your advantage, and grow through your personal efforts at self-healing.

DL: Or what you're dealing with.

SM: Yes, you don't really know what you're dealing with. You may never know fully what you're dealing with, but as long as you have a basic sense of their intentions are, you can know whether it's in your best interests to continue the interaction. In dealing with genuine negative ET contact (not the human type, which is another story), it is ultimately our choice if we wish to continue or not.

It is like the case of a woman who has been raped, and then says, "Well, I've learned a lot from this experience, because I've become more self-reliant, more self-confident, or developed the firm faith that I can survive anything". But that was her work, and was not the intention of the rapist. And so, if she calls that experience back again, that's called being self-destructive.

Likewise, you really cannot change the intentions of alien groups. They're clearly polarized, and I assure you, they're not wondering about good or evil, as they're fully aware of which path they're following. If indeed the contact is coming from a negative group with malevolent intent, no matter how much processing you do, if you still seek to continue it, you'll still get abused and taken advantage of.

I think that if people don't clearly determine the polarity of the contact (malevolent or benevolent), first and foremost, they could be putting themselves into great harm if they willfully continue it.

DL: And how do you suggest they determine the polarity of either being benevolent or malevolent?

SM: Frankly, you just need to be pretty damn straight with yourself about the nature of the experience. Honestly, it's really quite simple. If someone here on Earth pulled you out of bed, threw you around, put probes or needles into you, and confounds you in a thousand ways, you'd simply consider the person evil, call the police, or try to stay away from them. It is only our mental complexity, self-doubt, and legacy of religious self-denial that makes us think otherwise when the agent of the experience is an ET. Let's be clear: they're not all benevolent!

I mean, there's no true spiritual teacher alive that would do that to people! To lay people down on tables, put objects into them, disorient them and freak them out is not a sign of a positive contact. As I sometimes say to those who wonder about it, if that is the way of positive ET contact, then what in the world would qualify for a negative contact? How much worse must it get?

DL: And you never see that in angelic visitations or encounters.

SM: Right. This kind of experience never happens in such inspiring encounters, nor in the typical near-death "white light greeting," nor does it come from any human spiritual teacher. It just doesn't happen.

So, some people then say "Oh well, we can't apply our standards to theirs." Well, you know what, we can! That type of thinking is just false, as far as I know, and my own ET contacts go. I've met entities that I'd consider benevolent, and I've met those that I'd consider malevolent, and there's a world of difference between them.

Truth be told, the positive contacts I've had were near-beatific, and I'm not exaggerating. And on the converse, the few direct encounters I'd had with negative entities left me shaken, and shaking my head that a soul could be so evil, so horrible.

I really think that it's BS to dismiss our standards, and as you might expect, it comes from self-denial and an unwillingness to simply trust our feelings. I think it's a cop-out, and a pretty serious distortion to dismiss our feelings of terror and abhorrence.

If people don't want to acknowledge that they've been had, that they've been used and violated, it's easy to say, "Oh, I don't know anything, I guess they really care about me." But it goes against the heart, which is in pain and fear, and certainly doesn't want any more of this kind of experience.

I think a lot of people are afraid to say, "Yes, I've been traumatized, and I was basically violated." I think it's just another case of people not wanting to acknowledge their weakness, and the fact that they just couldn't say no, no matter how much they wanted to get away. However, if the person truly acknowledges their weakness and responsibility for co-creating the experience, then in my eyes (and in terms of their energy field and spiritual growth), it's an act of tremendous power and strength. If the person continues along that line, without blaming themselves and moving towards self-forgiveness, then it has the power to repel the negative ET in the future.

The first step to empowerment then is to acknowledge one's weakness. If the person can say, "Yes I was weak; yes, I made a mistake; I was lonely for some kind of spiritual contact, and it filled an empty space in my heart," then that's a self-empowering realization.

And by the way, this touches on one reason why many people want the negative contact to continue -- because not only are they trying to grow and learn from it (which is to their credit, not to the ET's intentions), but it fills a kind of emotional void within them.

And so, a lot of abductees don't want to terminate their contacts, no matter how abusive they are, how many scars are left on their body and soul, nor how confused or disoriented their life becomes. In the end, some people just feel "special" to be receiving such "higher power attention." Perhaps they feel important and specially chosen for this amazing contact (which is often what they're told, as well).

In such a case, they may reason that if some ET race with so much power, so far "advanced" beyond mere mortals, comes down to interact with them directly, then it must mean that they're special, and it would be hubris to reject them. Honestly, I think that this is just one derivative of insufficient self-trust, faith, and self-empowerment. If they were treated this way by another human, their reaction would be far less accommodating. I think it's wisdom to hold ETs to the same standards that we hold other humans. In fact, we really need to hold them to even higher standards, since they DO know what they're doing.

[This interview is available on audio tape . See TAPES in menu below.]

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